THE LAST INTERVIEW GIVEN BY HUBERTO ROHDEN

The following was published by a leading Brazilian magazine called VISÃO, and was the last interview given by Huberto Rohden to the journalist José Italo Stelle, at the headquarters of the Centre for Self-Realization Alvorada in São Paulo, Brazil and published on February 9, 1981. This interview addresses the issue of failures in school education not only in Brazil but in the vast majority of countries. And it is also a warning about self-education that should be awakened in man, that is, either man educates himself or not because one cannot expect only from the family and the education systems, the formation of a man in the educational and evolutional process if he himself does not educate himself!

The concepts of instruction and education are different.

Instruction is the transmission of knowledge or the formation of a certain skill; to educate is to socialize, to transmit patterns of behaviour in order to guarantee the continuity of human society.

In this interview, the journalist - who describes Rohden's physical appearance as being very tall, white hair, deep blue eyes, who simply dress and who, despite his advanced age, still has a very sharp mind - introduces readers, the wisdom of a man who lived his life in the service of humanity and showed to his fellow humans with his analytical and intuitive knowledge, the arrows to the path in search for self-knowledge and self-realization.

Rohden was 87 when he died a few months later, on October 7, 1981.

"Instruction at schools at any level teaches man to discover the laws of nature, i.e., science; but education leads man to create values within himself", says the Brazilian philosopher Huberto Rohden on this interview to the VISÃO magazine.

"There is no crisis of education in Brazil, nor any part of the globe. What in reality happens is a deplorable lack of true education". This is the opinion formulated by him regarding the so-called crisis of modern education. Rohden explains: "I'm not using the word "education" in the popular sense, referring to the degrees of instruction. I'm using this word in the strictly etymological and true way to "educe", to deduct, to extract from within, indicating that the educator must educe, to develop and manifest what already exists in the nature of the learner". It is this reason on which, in the opinion of Professor Rohden, "a philosophy or theology that admits beforehand that man is evil by his very nature cannot talk about to educe; it can only try to force the student to do something alien to his nature, and that is the opposite of education".

Like Socrates, Plato and the Stoics (those who remain faithful to virtue and knowledge), Rohden believes that good social order cannot be established with political deceptive tactics. A good social order does not originate in politics, but in ethics that promotes proper values in the consciousness of citizens and leaders of society: it is projected into society, but is rooted in the individual.

V - Do you have dedicated much of your time here in the Alvorada Institution, emphasizing the differences between instruction and education?

HR - No, not exactly. I have only spoken about self-knowledge and self-realization of human nature. This includes everything and goes far beyond education. We have to become self-realized. We are still at an embryonic level, preliminary; human "seeds". Symbolically speaking, we have to realize our human "seed" in the form of a perfect human "plant". Our main concern is the self-knowledge of human nature and its self-realization in practical life. We have to know who we are and to live according to who we are. A man should be self-realized. At the moment he is only achievable. Self-realization includes two things: either the instruction on science and consciousness on education. Governments can only instruct in technical subjects, trades, science, etc.; but cannot educate in the conscience level. The education of conscience is of the individual's conscience. We only have a Ministry of Instruction; we do not have a Ministry of Education. Does not exist any Ministry of Education in any country; and may not exist. There is a lack of clearness between instruction and education. Education is a concept much deeper than instruction. Instruction refers to broaden the intellect, intelligence; education is consciousness. Instruction at schools makes man instructed in some subject; education is responsible to shape a good man of good values. Both are necessary but the most important is the education of conscience.

V - So, contrary to what is assumed nowadays, education is an individual activity?

HR – It is eminently individual. There cannot be a social activity. It is reflected in society but is rooted in the individual. There is only self-education; there is no education coming from any external sources. Either man is self-educated or not educated at all. Others cannot educate me; they can only show me the path by which I can educate myself.

V - So, this is the purpose of the teacher - to show?

HR - Yes, the teacher is a guide. It can show to the student the path for self-education. There is so much confusion today about education. Among hundreds of books on education, barely I found one that I could entirely approve. Some have good approaches but does not stress the essential subject that is self-education.

V - It is said in recent debates that the Brazilian educational system is in crisis. Do you agree?

HR - Crisis supposes a presence. There is no crisis; what exists is a deplorable lack of true education.

V - From where this lack of true education came from?

HR – It is the result of the historic fact that our human evolution is not in an evolved level. We are not in the age of uncertainty which the economist J. K. Galbraith said; rather, we are in a permanent state of uncertainty, because humanity is not progressing reason wisely, only in intelligence, intellect, and has not yet reached the level of reason, conscience. We lack an advanced ethical discipline. Albert Einstein, who was a great luminary, said: "The discovery of the laws of nature makes the learned man, but does not makes the good man. A good man is one who performs the values that are within his consciousness. The world of facts, which is the science, does not conduct any way to the world of values, which is consciousness. Facts do not produce values, because values come from another region". Teilhard de Chardin once wrote that: "Man came from the biosphere. He is at the level of the noosphere (noos mean intelligence in Greek), and acts accordingly to the noosphere". We came from the biosphere, i.e., the sphere of life. We become intellectualized in thousands of years of existence; we came from the biosphere to the noosphere. We went from the sphere of life to the sphere of intelligence - and we are still at this level. Above noosphere there is the logosphere, which is the sphere of consciousness; but we are not there yet.

V - Some individuals are at a higher level of knowledge than most of humanity?

HR - Of course. There are isolated individuals, sporadic, who are in the sphere of education consciousness. But the majority are not at that level. It is a matter of the evolution of humanity. We cannot blame Brazil or anyone else. It is the lack of a higher evolution of humanity. On the sphere in which we are, we cannot have an education; we can only be subjects of instruction. All crimes, violence and terrorisms come from there. Science cannot abolish terror; only consciousness can do it. Someone said naively: "to open a school is to close a jail", and the experience of reality proves that the great criminals of humanity were not illiterate, but rather men with lack of conscious education.

V - And the churches, do not encourage education?

HR - Church theology teaches that it is better to die properly than to live properly. If a man lives fifty years killing, stealing, defrauding, buying forgiveness by donating property and money to the church as a way to reduce the amount of punishment one has to undergo for sins and, in the last five minutes of his life, he confesses and converts, goes to heaven and lives eternal life. This is an anti-pedagogical invitation, an invitation in disguise for a bad life, as long as there is a good death. Theologies are vehemently opposed to the education of the conscience, for simple morality is not education. And this is a complaint that I make on a real basis, as I have held the priesthood for 25 years.

V - But the churches do not preach the Gospel's ethics?

HR - No. They replaced the Gospel by the theology. The Gospel requires an honest life from beginning to end. But the churches preach simply that is enough for man the conversion at the last minute, trying to fix his mistakes with a false interpretation of the words of Jesus, to the thief on the cross.

V - Apart from theology, there are in your opinion, other philosophies opposed to the education operating in the so-called educational systems.

HR - The "educational systems" are full of these philosophies. See, for instance, B. F. Skinner's behaviourism. He says: "freedom is a myth and free will does not exist". It is a philosophy that says we are like an automaton, that we are conditioned by the environment. However, if there is no free will, then there is no basis for education. Man has the choice to be good or bad; that is, in him is opened the possibility of self-education, or not. But if a man is forced by the circumstances to be bad, or good, then the whole basis for education is over. We do not deny that circumstances may hinder the exercise of free will, but we deny that a normal man can be forced by the circumstances to be good or bad.

V - The moral emptiness, existential anguish that many seem to feel nowadays and which is constantly represented in modern art, paintings, theatre, literature, films, television, in the media as a whole in the social spheres, etc. from where they come?

HR - Comes from a lack of self-knowledge and a lack of true education. These social factors – the media as a whole - cannot educate because education is a highly individual process. What the mentioned social factors could and should do is to remove or reduce the barriers to true education. Unfortunately, almost all programs on cinemas, radio, television are blatantly anti-educational. And this ends in a vacuum or an existential frustration.

V - Which is the relationship between human nature and self-education?

HR - Self-education is the perfect evolution of the integral nature in man. It is not something foreign inserted therein; it is the inner content of his own nature, educed, and manifested in the external, individual and social life. The profane man without self-comprehension, abuses everything, including himself, in order to have moments of superficial pleasure. Moreover, the mystical man, isolationist, refuses to use any object; simply refuses everything. But the cosmic self-educated man, and self-realized, use everything without abusing anything. And this is true education. The educator must show that the learner wants to be faithful to his own nature and be happy, although that happiness is not always free from suffering. As long as the student confuses happiness with joy or unhappiness with suffering, consequently, there will be no open path to true education. The self-educated man can be happy in the midst of suffering and may also be unhappy in the midst of pleasures. The basis of self-education is self-knowledge, as said the Greek philosophers: "Know thyself".

V - There will be in the modern world a movement for self-education?

HR - Thankfully, there are in all countries small groups that are carrying on seriously self-education. I know the existence of the Neugeist (New Spirit) movements in Germanic countries; and the Self-Realization in Anglo-Saxon countries which in England is also known as The New Outlook, Seicho-No-Ie in Japan, and others. These movements are also represented in Brazil. But are private initiatives of small elites who take seriously their self-realization based on self-knowledge of human nature and ethics, manifested in the daily individual experience and social life. Fortunately, the most influential educator of all times said more than 2000 years ago: "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, but it is still a hidden treasure, that ye shall discover". With that, Jesus affirms the presence of a good element in man and the need he has to reveal in his everyday life this hidden treasure. This is pure self-education.

* * *

Alvorada is an institution that promotes the ideal of individual self-realization, without which no social reform is possible. The idea started in 1952, materialized in 1956. It was made official by Huberto Rohden as a cultural, charitable and non-profit organization that is still managed today by some of his former students and by individuals who promote studies, the word and the wisdom of this great thinker so that people can integrate more and more into the cosmic spirit of the great masters that humanity knows.

Currently, Rohden's teachings and writings have been published by Editora Martin Claret (Brazil), which holds the copyright to publish his books and of private initiatives in the studies and discussions of his literary ideas and on social networks. The initiative to introduce English and Spanish-speaking audiences to his teachings have not yet reached 10 years, and they bring to their authors the realization of an ideal, in expanding the works of what was, Huberto Rohden, one of the great philosophers of the 20th century.

COSMOCRACIA

Durante meses eu vivi no meio desses seres distintos de Cosmorama. E não tinha ainda certeza se tudo isso era uma realidade ou um sonho fantástico - talvez um sonho para além de toda a realidade.

O que mais me intrigava era a sua total ausência de governo. Nenhum presidente, ou primeiro ministro, nenhum governador, nenhum prefeito, nenhuma polícia; nem advogados, nem juízes - nada disto havia nessa misteriosa ilha.

Um dia pedi a Íris, que me mostrasse a constituição de Cosmorama; ela sorriu, balançou a cabeça, e não me respondeu.

E, apesar da completa ausência de legislação e policiamento, não havia crimes em Cosmorama, pois sua população era de avançada evolução mental. Nunca vi uma penitenciária nem uma cadeia. Se os habitantes dessa ilha fossem homens bem primitivos, ainda em estado animalesco, seria compreensível essa ausência de legislação, pois na natureza não existe um governo e nela se vive em paz.

Quando pude ter mais familiaridade com Íris, ela me apresentou uma pessoa com a qual ousei pedir explicação sobre essa espécie de ausência de governo, que em grego se chamaria anarquia, mas não uma anarquia negativa, caótica, mas uma anarquia positiva, cósmica. O que essa pessoa me disse foi a confirmação explicita de algo que eu já sentira implicitamente.

Ele afirmou que os dois extremos da natureza, o nadir do instinto e o zênite da intuição, não necessitam de governo externo, pois cada ser tem dentro de si o seu governo interno. Todos são cosmo-governados. O mundo instintivo do mineral, do vegetal e do animal é governado pela Inteligência Cósmica, que, nesses seres é aparentemente inconsciente, embora consciente em si mesma. Toda natureza não humana vive numa harmonia automática, da qual não pode passar além dos limites estabelecidos pelas Potências Cósmicas. A permanente luta da natureza não entra em contradição com a cosmocracia; é uma luta de equilíbrio construtor, mas não de extermínio destruidor.

No mundo do homem-integral, plenificado, o instinto subconsciente da natureza é substituído pela razão consciente, que se manifesta como consciência, razão, espírito. O nadir do inconsciente, culminou no zênite da consciência total.

A Consciência Cósmica impera na intimidade desse homem, que age como cosmo-agido, cosmo-vivido, cosmo-consciente. Esse homem não perdeu a sua ego-personalidade, mas amadureceu em cosmo-individualidade. E, devido a essa imanência da consciência cósmica, esse homem não necessita de um governo externo, uma vez que o seu governo interno dispensa qualquer legislação externa.

Somente o homem ego-consciente necessita de um governo externo. A ego-personalidade baseada na intelectualidade é, por sua natureza, fragmentada, centrífuga e discordante. A lei externa é um substituto, embora precário, da lei interna, ainda inoperante. Inoperante porque o egoísmo humano está chegando perto dos limites de tragédia mundial – nesta alvorada do terceiro milênio - diante do caos, como pode se presenciar nas guerras, conflitos, dramas e dilemas encontrados em quase todas os níveis das relações humanas.

No homem racional impera a cosmocracia; o homem intelectual é governado pela chamada democracia criada por ele, que é a designação de uma personalidade para governar as outras personalidades. A fim de garantir certa paz social, resolvem os egos encarregar um ego para os governar, para que possa haver uma paz relativa entre eles. A paz relativa dessa democracia, assim fragmentada, não passa de um armistício, que é melhor do que a guerra, embora não seja uma paz real e duradoura. O governo dessa democracia, deve contentar-se com uma paz precária, porque a paz duradoura não é atributo da ego-personalidade.

Quando essas verdades me foram apresentadas, perguntei se não existiam outras formas de governo? Me explicaram então, que além da cosmocracia racional e da democracia intelectual, existia a monocracia ditatorial, onde um homem, sem consultar os outros, se julga ser o mandante de um povo, seja por hereditariedade, como nos antigos reinos e impérios ... e até hoje! ou sob a pressão das armas de fogo, como em certas "democracias" e ditaduras modernas.

Conclui então, que os habitantes de Cosmorama vivem em um estágio muito mais avançado do que a humanidade da Terra, que ainda sobrevive no estágio fragmentado das democracias ou das monocracias.

Se a razão cósmica conseguisse superar a nossa inteligência analítica, a nossa humanidade iria proclamar uma maravilhosa cosmocracia. Mas ... essa cosmocracia supõe a consciência cósmica dentro de cada indivíduo.

Com isso, em meu positivismo melancólico, vislumbrei a alvorada de uma nova humanidade, em horizontes longínquos ... Um dia, "O Reino de Deus será proclamado sobre a face da terra... e haverá um novo céu e uma nova terra ..."

Texto revisado extraído do livro COSMORAMA

COSMOCRACIA

Durante meses viví en medio de estos seres distintos de Cosmorama. Y todavía no estaba seguro si todo esto era una realidad o un sueño fantástico, tal vez un sueño más allá de toda realidad.

Lo que más me intrigó fue su total ausencia de gobierno. Sin presidente ni primer ministro, sin gobernador, sin alcalde, sin policía; ni abogados ni jueces; nada de esto existe en esta misteriosa isla.

Un día le pedí a Iris que me mostrara la constitución de Cosmorama; ella sonrió, sacudió la cabeza y no me respondió.

Y, a pesar de la ausencia total de legislación y vigilancia, no hubo crímenes en Cosmorama, ya que su población era de evolución mental avanzada. Nunca he visto un penal o una cárcel. Si los habitantes de esta isla fueran hombres muy primitivos, todavía en un estado animal, esta ausencia de legislación sería comprensible, porque en la naturaleza no hay gobierno y uno vive en paz en él.

Cuando pude familiarizarme más con Iris, ella me presentó a una persona con la que me atreví a pedir una explicación de este tipo de ausencia de gobierno, que en griego se llamaría anarquía, pero no una anarquía negativa y caótica, sino una anarquía cósmica positiva. Lo que esta persona me dijo fue la confirmación explícita de algo que ya había sentido implícitamente.

Afirmó que los dos extremos de la naturaleza, el nadir del instinto y el cenit de la intuición, no necesitan un gobierno externo, ya que cada ser tiene su gobierno interno dentro de sí mismo. Todos son gobernados por el Cosmos. El mundo instintivo del mineral, el vegetal y el animal se rige por la Inteligencia Cósmica, que en estos seres es aparentemente inconsciente, aunque consciente en sí misma. Toda la naturaleza no humana vive en una armonía automática, que no puede pasar más allá de los límites establecidos por los Poderes Cósmicos. La lucha permanente de la naturaleza no contradice la cosmocracia; es una lucha por el equilibrio constructivo, pero no por el exterminio destructivo.

En el mundo del hombre integral, cósmico, el instinto subconsciente de la naturaleza es reemplazado por la razón consciente, que se manifiesta como conciencia, razón, espíritu. El nadir del inconsciente culminó en el cenit de la conciencia total.

La Conciencia Cósmica reina en la intimidad de este hombre, que actúa como cosmo-actuado, cosmo-vivido, cosmo-consciente. Este hombre no perdió su personalidad del ego, pero maduró en cosmo-individualidad. Y, debido a esta inmanencia de conciencia cósmica, este hombre no necesita un gobierno externo, ya que su gobierno interno prescinde de cualquier legislación externa.

Solo el hombre ego-consciente necesita un gobierno externo. La personalidad del ego basada en la intelectualidad es, por su naturaleza, fragmentada, centrífuga y discordante. El derecho externo es un sustituto, aunque precario, del derecho interno, que aún inoperante. Inoperante porque el egoísmo humano se está acercando a los límites de la tragedia mundial - en los albores del tercer milenio - frente al caos, como se puede ver en guerras, conflictos, dramas y dilemas que se encuentran en casi todos los niveles de las relaciones humanas.

En el hombre racional, la cosmocracia prevalece; el hombre intelectual se rige por la llamada democracia que creó, que es la designación de una personalidad para gobernar otras personalidades. Para garantizar una cierta paz social, los egos resuelven confiar un ego para gobernarlos, de modo que pueda haber una paz relativa entre ellos. La relativa paz de esta democracia, así fragmentada, no es más que un armisticio, que es mejor que la guerra, aunque no es una paz real y duradera. El gobierno de esta democracia debe contentarse con la paz precaria, porque la paz duradera no es un atributo de la personalidad del ego.

Cuando me presentaron estas verdades, pregunté si no había otras formas de gobierno. Entonces me explicaron que, además de la cosmocracia racional y la democracia intelectual, había una monocracia dictatorial, donde un hombre, sin consultar a otros, se cree el dueño de un pueblo, ya sea por herencia, ¡como en los viejos reinos e imperios ... e incluso hoy! o bajo la presión de las armas de fuego, como en ciertas "democracias" y dictaduras modernas.

Concluye, entonces, que los habitantes de Cosmorama viven en una etapa mucho más avanzada que la humanidad de la Tierra, que aún sobrevive bajo el poder de las democracias o monocracias fragmentadas.

Si la razón cósmica lograra superar nuestra inteligencia analítica, nuestra humanidad proclamaría una cosmocracia maravillosa. Pero ... esta cosmocracia presupone la conciencia cósmica dentro de cada individuo.

Con eso, en mi melancólico positivismo, vi el amanecer de una nueva humanidad, en tiempos distantes ... Un día, "El Reino de Dios será proclamado sobre la faz de la tierra ... y habrá un cielo nuevo y una tierra nueva ..."

COSMOCRACY

For months I lived amid these distinct beings from Cosmorama. And I was still not sure if all of this was a reality or a fantastic dream - perhaps a dream beyond all realities.

What intrigued me most was the total absence of government. No president, or prime minister, no governor, no mayor, no police; neither lawyers nor judges - none of this exists on this mysterious island.

One day I asked Iris to show me the constitution of Cosmorama; she smiled, shook her head, and didn't answer me.

And, despite the complete absence of legislation and policing, there were no crimes in Cosmorama, as its population was of advanced mental evolution. I've never seen a penitentiary or a jail. If the inhabitants of this island were very primitive men, still in an animalistic state, this absence of legislation would be understandable, because in nature there is no government and there is peace in it.

When I became more familiar with Iris, she introduced me to someone with whom I dared to ask for an explanation of this kind of absence of government, which in Greek would be called anarchy, but not in negative, chaotic anarchy, but positive, cosmic anarchy. What the person told me was the explicit confirmation of something that I had already felt implicitly.

He stated that the two extremes of nature, the nadir of instinct and the zenith of intuition, do not need external government since each being has its internal government within itself. All are Cosmo-governed. The instinctual world of the mineral, the vegetable and the animal are governed by Cosmic Intelligence, which in these beings is apparently unconscious, although conscious in itself. The non-human nature lives in an automatic harmony, which cannot pass beyond the limits established by the Cosmic Powers. Nature's permanent struggle does not contradict Cosmocracy; it is a struggle for constructive equilibrium, but not for destructive extermination.

In the world of the integral man, the subconscious instinct of nature is replaced by conscious reason, which manifests itself as consciousness, reason, spirit. The nadir of the unconscious culminated in the zenith of total consciousness.

Cosmic Consciousness reigns in the intimacy of this man, who acts as Cosmo-acted, Cosmo-lived, Cosmo-conscious. This man did not lose his ego-personality, but he matured into Cosmo-individuality. And, due to this immanence of cosmic consciousness, this man does not need an external government, since his internal government dispenses any external legislation.

Only the self-conscious man needs external government. The ego-personality based on intellectuality is, by its nature, fragmented, centrifugal and discordant. External law is a substitute, albeit precarious, of the internal law, which is still inoperative. Inoperative because human selfishness is approaching the limits of world tragedy - in this dawn of the third millennium - in the face of chaos, as can be seen in wars, conflicts, dramas and dilemmas found in almost all levels of human relations.

In the rational man, Cosmocracy prevails; intellectual man is governed by the so-called democracy created by him, which is the designation of a personality to govern other personalities. To guarantee a certain social peace, the egos resolve to entrust an ego to rule them, so that there can be a relative peace between them. The relative peace of this democracy, thus fragmented, is but an armistice, which is better than war, although it is not a sense of real and lasting peace. The government of this democracy must be content with precarious peace because lasting peace is not an attribute of the ego-personality.

When these truths were shown to me, I asked if there were no other forms of government? They explained to me that in addition to rational Cosmocracy and intellectual democracy, there was a dictatorial monocracy, where a man, without consulting others, believes himself to be the mastermind of a people, whether through heredity, as in the ancient kingdoms and empires … and even today! or under the pressure of guns, as in certain "democracies" and modern dictatorships.

Therefore, I did conclude, that the inhabitants of Cosmorama lived in a much more advanced stage than the humanity of Earth, which still survives under the power of the fragmented democracies or monocracies.

If cosmic reason managed to overcome our analytical intelligence, our humanity would proclaim a wonderful Cosmocracy. But ... this Cosmocracy supposes the cosmic consciousness within each individual.

With that, in my melancholy positivism, I saw the dawn of a new humanity, in distant times ... One day, "The Kingdom of God will be proclaimed on the face of the earth ... and there will be a new heaven and a new earth."

CONHECENDO COSMORAMA E O DIÁLOGO COM ÍRIS

No dia seguinte, Íris, a jovem habitante de Cosmorama, e Rohden, o velho habitante terreno, continuaram o diálogo dividindo suas ideias entre os dois mundos que separam as duas realidades; a ilusória em que os seres humanos vivem, e a vida real dos seres Cósmicos, os assim chamados habitantes de Cosmorama.

Muitas semanas haviam se passado desde que eu chegara a essa ilha de mistério, mas rápida foi a minha convalescença, graças ao tratamento que eu recebera de seus habitantes, e em particular de Íris. O termo “tratamento” não deve ser tomado no sentido em que é usado na Terra. Não fui tratado em nenhum hospital, que não existe em Cosmorama, e nem tomei remédio algum. Tampouco recebi visita de médico ou algum especialista – que nada disso se conhece entre os Cósmicos.

Esteve supervisionando o meu “tratamento,” como soube mais tarde, um dos Videntes, que pôs as mãos sobre a minha fronte quando eu me achava ainda em estado de coma, depois de ter sido jogado na praia pelas ondas do mar.

No meu encontro seguinte com Íris, perguntei: O que fez o Vidente, quando eu me encontrava meio morto?

- Não fez nada – respondeu ela – apenas canalizou para dentro de seu organismo a saúde do Infinito, e as suas energias desarmonizadas harmonizaram-se novamente.

- E você chama isso não fazer nada?

- Não, não foi o Vidente que fez, senhor Rohden; foi Ele, o Grande, o Eterno, que te deu vida e saúde. O Vidente somente serviu de intermediário e veículo d’Ele.

- Pode todo homem servir de veículo d’Ele?

- Pode e deve, disse Íris.

- Como?

- É simples a resposta meu caro terráqueo, libertando-se de tudo que obstrua os canais que ligam todos os seres a Ele.

- Ninguém morre nesta ilha?

- Todos morrem.

- Mas... se não há doenças? Perguntei curioso.

- Morte não é doença, me explicou Íris. A morte é um processo tão natural e inevitável como o nascimento e a vida, se não houvesse morte, não haveria vida em evolução ascendente; mas as moléstias não fazem parte da natureza do Cosmos.

- Até hoje, Íris, não vi pessoa idosa nesta ilha.

- Não vistes? Vistes muitas com cem, e algumas com duzentos anos!

- O que estás dizendo, Íris? Isso é brincadeira?

- É como digo senhor Rohden. Aquele Vidente que dirigia a meditação, do alto da escadaria do santuário, tem mais de cem anos de idade!

- Vi alguns com cabelos brancos, mas todos pareciam jovens, no vigor da idade.

- Quem vive em harmonia com o Infinito - conectado espiritualmente com Ele, é sempre um jovem que ignora velhice - não conhece decrepitude senil; vive em pleno vigor, físico e mental, até que seu corpo expire a última fração de energia – e o organismo para, porque é chegado o seu tempo de parar.

Olhei atentamente para o semblante de Íris, que também me olhava, e não pude compreender que em uma jovem de tão pouca idade habitasse a sabedoria dos séculos e milênios. Falava com muita facilidade sobre assuntos difíceis de entender.

- Como é possível, Íris, que você que não deve ter mais de vinte anos, saiba desses assuntos tão avançados? ...

- Vinte anos? – exclamou ela com uma risada jovial, sacudindo de leve a cabeleira escura que lhe emoldurava o lindo rosto.

- Eu tenho mais do que o dobro dessa idade ...

- Não me digas! ... exclamei estupefato.

- Digo porque é verdade.

- E, ainda por cima, tens a coragem de confessar isto, com tanta simplicidade...

- Por que não?

- Entre nós, os humanos da Terra, as jovens negam a idade que tem, e costumam presenciar com horror os primeiros sintomas de velhice.

- Sei disto, sei disto, replicou Íris. Mas, algum dia, elas serão como nós.

E houve entre nós, uma pausa, repleta das vibrações invisíveis do Além, do silêncio que tanto preenche a consciência, permitindo que nesse vazio a Razão floresça, não ao intelecto, mas a Razão, essa que nada mais é do a afinidade com o Infinito.

- Me diz, Íris, como é possível que saibas de tudo o que acontece entre nós? Nunca nenhum dos habitantes de Cosmorama, esteve no planeta dos Telúricos; como podes ter notícias de tudo o que lá acontece? Vós, que vives nesta imensa solidão, isolados de todo o resto do Universo ...

- Meu caro Delfos! - exclamou. Ah! ... esqueci de mencionar que Íris me colocou o nome de Delfos, abreviação da palavra grega adelfós, que quer dizer irmão; aliás, os Cósmicos todos se tratam por irmão ou irmã. Para os mais idosos, muitos usam o título de Pai ou Mestre.

- Nós não vivemos separados do resto do Universo - continuou Íris - sabemos de tudo que acontece entre os habitantes da Terra e entre todos os outros seres conscientes do Cosmos; isto é, sabemos aquilo que nos interessa saber. Temos a possibilidade de afinar a nossa alma por certas ondas que vibram no espaço.

- Como nós fazemos com o rádio e a televisão? Perguntei ...

- Mais ou menos assim, com a diferença de que não usamos aparelhos materiais. A alma quando atinge um certo grau de evolução, é mais potente do que qualquer máquina.

- Podemos voltar a falar dos mortos? Perguntei ...

- Mortos? ... Me perguntou, mas não no sentido que se entende na Terra.

- Sei que vocês de Cosmorama entendem por morte algo bem diferente do que a maior parte dos habitantes da Terra.

- Delfos, me disse, entendemos aquilo que é verdade.

- Mas o que é a verdade?

- A verdade é a consciência da realidade. A verdade sobre o homem é que ele necessita de certos meios para atingir o seu grande destino.

- Quer dizer, que, depois desta vida terrestre, vem outra vida, ou outras vidas? ...

- Nem outra vida nem outras vidas, meu caro Delfos; nós não cremos em outra vida, porque vivemos na luz da verdade.

- A verdade - diz Íris, com tamanha reverência - é que a vida é uma só, sempre a mesma, embora passe por diversos estágios de evolução. Começa aqui, num corpo material, e continua em outra parte, em outro corpo.

- Num corpo astral? ... Perguntei.

- É assim que alguns terráqueos lhe chamam; mas isto é simples questão de nome. Pouco importa que nome damos a esse corpo. O fato é que os que, pelo corpo material, colherem a experiência necessária, terão necessidade de um instrumento mais aperfeiçoado, e o desejo gera a realidade. O corpo material se transforma num corpo imaterial, cada vez mais sutil e idôneo, de acordo com as experiências superiores que a alma conseguir.

- A física nuclear dos últimos tempos, na Terra, provou que toda matéria é energia, algo imaterial, como é o éter, a luz, a vida.

- Meu caro Delfos, há milhares de anos que nós sabemos disso, aliás, os mais avançados dentre os telúricos, também sabiam, muito antes que a ciência experimental o confirmasse, mas ainda de uma forma precária.

- Mas como? Há milhares de anos sabeis disto?

- Sim, disse-me Íris, nós somos os seres conscientes mais antigos sobre a face deste planeta. Quando nossos irmãos da Atlântida desapareceram, só nós sobrevivemos, porque nos incumbe a grande missão de levar aos nossos irmãos Telúricos o conhecimento da verdade integral, para que também entre eles seja proclamado o reino d'Ele, como foi entre nós.

- Íris, você me diz com tanta clareza e segurança dos mais tenebrosos mistérios da existência, que julgo cada vez mais estar sonhando ...

- Não, meu caro Delfos, estavas sonhando por muito tempo; agora é que estas começando a acordar.

E depois desse momento, Íris se foi, esse mistério cósmico em forma de mulher!

Texto extraído do livro COSMORAMA

CONOCIENDO COSMORAMA Y EL DIÁLOGO CON IRIS

Al día siguiente, Iris, el joven habitante de Cosmorama, y señor Rohden, el antiguo habitante terrenal, continuaron el diálogo dividiendo sus ideas entre los dos mundos que separan las dos realidades; la ilusoria en la que viven los seres humanos, y la vida real de los seres cósmicos, los llamados habitantes de Cosmorama.

Habían pasado muchas semanas desde que llegué a esta isla misteriosa, pero mi convalecencia fue rápida, gracias al tratamiento que recibí de sus habitantes, y particularmente de Iris. El término "tratamiento" no debe tomarse en el sentido de que se usa en la Tierra. No recibí tratamiento en ningún hospital, que no existe en Cosmorama, ni tomé ningún medicamento. Tampoco recibí visita de un médico o de ningún especialista, ninguno de los cuales se conoce entre la gente cósmica.

Estaba supervisando mi "tratamiento", como lo supe más tarde uno de los videntes, quien puso sus manos en la frente de mi cabeza cuando aún estaba en coma, después de ser arrojado a la playa por las olas del océano.

En mi próxima reunión con Iris, pregunté: ¿Qué hizo el Vidente cuando estaba medio muerto?

No hice nada, respondió ella, simplemente canalizó la salud del Infinito hacia tu cuerpo, y tus energías desarmonizadas armonizaron nuevamente.

- ¿Y lo llamas sin hacer nada?

- No, no fue el Vidente quien lo hizo, señor Rohden; fue Él, el Grande, el Eterno, quien te dio vida y salud. El Vidente solo sirvió como Su intermediario y vehículo.

- ¿Puede cada hombre servir como Su vehículo?

- Puede y debe, dijo Iris.

- ¿Pero como?

- La respuesta es simple, mi querido terrícola, liberándose de todo lo que obstruye los canales que conectan a todos los seres con Él.

- ¿Nadie muere en esta isla?

- Todos mueren.

- Pero ... si no hay enfermedades? Pregunté curioso.

- La muerte no es una enfermedad, me explicó Iris. La muerte es un proceso tan natural e inevitable como el nacimiento y la vida, si no hubiera muerte, no habría vida en una evolución ascendente; pero las enfermedades no son parte de la naturaleza del cosmos.

- Hasta el día de hoy, Iris, no he visto a una persona mayor en esta isla.

- ¿No lo viste? ¡Has visto muchos con cien, y algunos con doscientos años!

- ¿Qué estás diciendo, Iris? ¿Es esto una broma?

- Así digo señor Rohden. ¡Ese Vidente que dirigió la meditación desde lo alto de los escalones del santuario tiene más de cien años!

- Vi algunos con cabello blanco, pero todos parecían jóvenes, en el vigor de la edad.

- Quien vive en armonía con el Infinito, conectado espiritualmente con Él, siempre es un joven que ignora la vejez, no conoce la decrepitud senil; vive en pleno vigor, físico y mental, hasta que su cuerpo exhala la última fracción de energía, y el organismo se detiene, porque es hora de detenerse.

Miré de cerca la cara de Iris, que también me estaba mirando, y no pude entender que, en una mujer tan joven, vivía la sabiduría de siglos y milenios. Hablaba muy fácilmente sobre temas difíciles de entender.

- ¿Cómo es posible, Iris, que tú, que no debes tener más de veinte años, ¿conozcas temas tan avanzados? ...

- ¿Veinte años? Exclamó con una risa alegre, sacudiendo el cabello oscuro que enmarcaba su hermoso rostro.

- Tengo más del doble de esa edad ...

- ¡No me digas! ... exclamé estupefacto.

- Digo porque es verdad.

- Y, además de eso, tienes el coraje de confesar esto, con tanta simplicidad ...

- ¿Porque no?

- Entre nosotros, los humanos en la Tierra, las mujeres jóvenes niegan su edad, y a menudo ven los primeros síntomas de la vejez con horror.

"Lo sé, lo sé", respondió Iris. Pero algún día, serán como nosotros.

Y hubo una pausa entre nosotros, llena de las vibraciones invisibles del Más Allá, del silencio que llena tanto la conciencia, permitiendo que la Razón florezca en este vacío, no el intelecto, sino la Razón, que no es más que la afinidad con el Infinito.

- Dime, Iris, ¿cómo es posible que sepas todo lo que sucede entre nosotros? Ninguno de los habitantes de Cosmorama ha estado en el planeta Tierra; ¿Cómo puedes saber todo lo que sucede allí? Tú, que vives en esta inmensa soledad, aislado del resto del Universo ...

- Mi querido Delphi! exclamó él. ¡Ah! ... Olvidé mencionar que Iris me llamó Delphi, abreviatura de la palabra griega adelfós, que significa hermano; de hecho, todos los cósmicos se llaman a sí mismos hermanos o hermanas. Para los ancianos, muchos usan el título de Padre o Maestro.

- No vivimos separados del resto del Universo - continuó Iris - sabemos todo lo que sucede entre los habitantes de la Tierra y entre todos los demás seres conscientes del Cosmos; es decir, sabemos lo que nos interesa saber. Tenemos la posibilidad de sintonizar nuestra alma para ciertas ondas que vibran en el espacio.

- ¿Cómo lo hacemos con la radio y la televisión? Pregunté ...

- Más o menos, con la diferencia de que no usamos dispositivos materiales. Cuando el alma alcanza un cierto grado de evolución, es más poderosa que cualquier máquina.

- ¿Podemos hablar de los muertos otra vez? Pregunté ...

- ¿Muertos? ... me preguntó, pero no en el sentido que se entiende en la Tierra.

- Sé que en Cosmorama entiendes la muerte como algo muy diferente a la mayoría de los habitantes de la Tierra.

- Delphi, me dijo, entendemos lo que es verdad.

- Pero que es la verdad?

- La verdad es la conciencia de la realidad. La verdad sobre el hombre es que necesita ciertos medios para alcanzar su gran destino.

- ¿Quieres decir que después de esta vida terrenal, viene otra vida u otras vidas? ...

- Ni otra vida ni otras vidas, mi querido Delphi; No creemos en otra vida, porque vivimos a la luz de la verdad.

- La verdad - dice Iris, con tanta reverencia - es que la vida es una, siempre la misma, aunque atraviesa varias etapas de evolución. Comienza aquí, en un cuerpo material, y continúa en otro lugar, en otro cuerpo.

- En un cuerpo astral? ... pregunté.

- Así lo llaman algunos terrícolas; pero esta es una simple cuestión de nombre. Poco importa lo que llamamos este cuerpo. El hecho es que aquellos que, a través del cuerpo material, reúnen la experiencia necesaria, necesitarán un instrumento más perfeccionado, y el deseo genera la realidad. El cuerpo material se convierte en un cuerpo inmaterial, cada vez más sutil y adecuado, de acuerdo con las experiencias superiores que obtiene el alma.

- La física nuclear de los últimos tiempos, en la Tierra, demostró que toda la materia es energía, algo inmaterial, como lo es el éter, la luz, la vida.

- Mi querido Delphi, lo sabemos desde hace miles de años, de hecho, el más avanzado entre los terrícolas, también lo sabía, mucho antes de que la ciencia experimental lo confirmara, pero aún de una manera precaria.

- ¿Pero cómo? ¿Lo has sabido por miles de años?

- Sí, me dijo Iris, somos los seres sintientes más antiguos en la faz de este planeta. Cuando nuestros hermanos de Atlantis desaparecieron, solo nosotros sobrevivimos, porque es nuestra gran misión llevar a nuestros hermanos terrícolas el conocimiento de toda la verdad, para que el reino de Él también pueda ser proclamado entre ellos, como lo fue entre nosotros.

- Iris, me dices con tanta claridad y certeza los misterios más oscuros de la existencia, que cada vez más pienso que estoy soñando ...

- No, querido Delphi, has estado soñando durante mucho tiempo; ahora estás empezando a despertar.

Y después de ese momento, Iris se fue, ¡ese misterio cósmico en forma de mujer!

KNOWING COSMORAMA AND THE DIALOGUE WITH IRIS

The next day, Iris, the young inhabitant of Cosmorama, and Rohden, the old earthly inhabitant, continued the dialogue by sharing their knowledge between the two worlds that separate the two realities; the illusory in which human beings live, and the real-life of Cosmic beings, the so-called inhabitants of Cosmorama.

Many weeks had passed since I arrived on this island of mystery, but my convalescence was quick, thanks to the treatment I received from its inhabitants, and particularly from Iris. The term "treatment" should not be taken in the sense that it is used on Earth. I was not treated in any hospital, which does not exist in Cosmorama, nor did I take any medicine. Nor did I receive a visit from a doctor or any specialist - none of which is known among Cosmic people.

Someone was supervising my “treatment,” as I learned later, one of the Seers who put his hands on my forehead when I was still in a coma, after being thrown on the beach by the ocean waves.

On my next meeting with Iris, I asked: What did the Seer do, when I was half-dead?

- He didn't do anything, she replied, he just channelled the health of the Infinite into your body, and your disharmonized energies harmonized again.

- And you call it doing nothing?

- No, it was not the Seer who did, Mr Rohden; it was He, the Great, the Eternal, who gave back your life and health. The Seer only served as His intermediary and vehicle.

- Can every man serve as His vehicle?

- Can and should, said Iris.

- I’m sorry, but how?

- The answer is simple, my dear Earthman, freeing yourself from everything that obstructs the channels that connect all beings to Him.

- Does nobody die on this island?

- Everyone dies.

- But ... if there are no diseases? I asked curiously.

- Death is not a disease, Iris explained to me. Death is a process as natural and inevitable as birth and life, if there were no death, there would be no life in an ascensional evolution; but diseases are not part of the nature of the Cosmos.

- To this day, Iris, I have not seen an elderly person on this island.

- Didn't you see? You have seen many with a hundred, and some with two hundred years!

- What are you saying, Iris? Are you joking?

- That's how I say Mr Rohden. That Seer who led meditation from the top of the sanctuary is over a hundred years old!

- I saw some with white hair, but they all looked young, in the vigour of age.

- Whoever lives in harmony with the Infinite - spiritually connected with Him, is always a young man who ignores old age - does not know senile decrepitude; he lives in full vigour, physical and mental until his body exhales the last fraction of energy - and the organism stops because it is time to stop.

I looked closely at the face of Iris, who was also looking at me, and I could not understand that in a young woman, the wisdom of centuries and millennia lived. She spoke very easily about subjects difficult to understand.

- How is it possible, Iris, that you who must not be more than twenty years old, know about such advanced subjects? ...

- Twenty years? She exclaimed with a joyous laugh, shaking the dark hair that framed her beautiful face.

- I am more than twice that age ...

- Don't tell me that! ... I exclaimed dumbfounded.

- I say because it's true.

- And, on top of that, you have the courage to confess this, with such simplicity ...

- Why not?

- Among us, humans on Earth, young women deny their age, and they usually witness the first symptoms of old age with horror.

I know this, I know this, replied Iris. But someday, they will be like us.

And there was a pause between us, full of the invisible vibrations from the Beyond, of the silence that fills the conscience so much, allowing Reason to flourish in this void, not the intellect, but Reason, which is nothing more than the affinity with the Infinite.

- Tell me, Iris, how is it possible for you to know everything that happens between us? None of the inhabitants of Cosmorama has ever been on the planet Earth; how can you hear about everything that happens there? You, who live in this immense loneliness, isolated from all the rest of the Universe ...

- My dear Delphi! she exclaimed. Ah! ... I forgot to mention that Iris named me Delphi, short for the Greek word adelfós, which means brother; in fact, people of Cosmorama all call themselves brother or sister. For the elderly, many use the title of Father or Master.

- We do not live separated from the rest of the Universe - continued Iris - we know everything that happens between the inhabitants of Earth and among all the other conscious beings of the Cosmos; that is, we know what we are interested in knowing. We tune our soul to certain waves that vibrate in space.

- How do we do with radio and television? I asked ...

- More or less so, with the difference that we do not use material devices. When the soul reaches a certain degree of evolution, it is more powerful than any machine.

- Can we talk about the dead again? I asked ...

- Dead? ... She asked me, but not in the sense that it means on Earth.

- I know that you at Cosmorama understand death as something quite different than most inhabitants of Earth.

- Delphi, she told me, we understand what is true.

- But what is the truth?

- The truth is the consciousness of reality. The truth about man is that he needs certain means to reach his great destiny.

- You mean, after this earthly life, another life comes, or other lives? ...

- Neither other life nor other lives, my dear Delphi; we do not believe in another life, because we live in the light of truth.

- The truth - says Iris, with such reverence - is that life is one, always the same, although it goes through several stages of evolution. It starts here, in a material body, and continues elsewhere, in another body.

- In an astral body? ... I asked.

- That's what some earthlings call it, but this is a simple matter of the name. It does not matter what we call this body. The fact is that those who, through the material body, gather the necessary experience, will need a more perfected instrument, and the desire generates reality. The material body becomes an immaterial body, more and more subtle and suitable, according to the superior experiences that the soul obtains.

- The nuclear physics of recent times, on Earth, proved that all matter is energy, something immaterial, as is the ether, the light, the life.

- My dear Delphi, we have known this for thousands of years, indeed, the most advanced among the Tellurics, also knew it, long before experimental science confirmed it, but still in a precarious way.

- How? Have you known this for thousands of years?

- Yes, Iris told me, we are the oldest sentient beings on this planet. When our brothers from Atlantis disappeared, only we survived, because it is our great mission to bring to our Telluric brothers the knowledge of the whole truth, so that the kingdom of Him may also be proclaimed among them, as it was among us.

- Iris, you speak to me with such clarity and certainty of the darkest mysteries of existence, that I increasingly think I am dreaming ...

- No, my dear Delphi, you have been dreaming for a long time; now you are starting to wake up.

And after that moment, Iris is gone, that cosmic mystery in the form of a woman!