FREE WILL

For many decades, particularly in the '60s and '70s, always very informal, witty, and with excellent humour, already famous and respected philosopher, theologian, educator and writer, polymath and polyglot, Huberto Rohden was frequently asked for interviews and lectures by the Brazillian media.

 

It stands out among them, some very interesting ones broadcasted by the famous Brazilian journalist Xênia Bier. In the interview below, a reflection on free will in man.

 

 

Xênia – Professor Rohden, among scientists and philosophers, there are discussions about man's free will. Is there such free will?

 

Rohden - All the books I know of on the subject make a permanent confusion between potential freedom and dynamic freedom. It is part of the nature of every normal human being to be potentially free, but no one is born dynamically free. However, we have all the necessary ingredients for dynamic freedom at birth.

 

I don't believe 1% of humanity has achieved this freedom. The vast majority of humans do not want to make an effort to free themselves from traditional slavery. We were born free but learning to be in shackles, slaves to money, sex, society, culture and slaves to many other slaveries. We are all great slavers and great enslaved.

 

The law that abolished black slavery is a historical fact of the past. And who was it that abolished white slavery, and that of the red skins, of the yellow ones, in short, human slavery? No one can abolish it by decree. Now, everyone can try to abolish individual slavery and proclaim individual liberation. This liberation is possible. But who does? There is not 1% of really free men. 99% are in shackles and enslaved people until they die.

 

X- And where do we place free will in this?

 

Freedom does not mean escaping from human circumstances... money, family, society, culture, instincts. Liberation is above that. I must be free among the enslaved people; I can be clean among the unclean. This kind of behaviour I call liberation. It is not running away; it is not abandoning the struggles of life – this is cowardice. Whoever abandons confesses that it is weak. And weakness is bondage. I have to be free amid slavery.

 

X- That is, to pass through the burning bush without being burned, symbolically representing the biblical passage described in the Book of Exodus, where the bush burned but was not consumed by the flames!

 

A- But, of course, escape is not a solution. Leaving everything behind is not a solution. I have to free myself from society in the midst of it. I have to free myself from the bondage of the family in the midst of it. I have to free myself from the bondage of money amid money. Acting this way is what I call liberation. Liberation is not an escape; it is cowardice.

 

X- And what is liberation, Professor Rohden?

 

R- Liberation is knowing how to use everything without abusing anything, which is liberation. Use everything without abusing anything. Abusing is prohibited. To refuse is allowed. Using is recommended. I call this liberation. Using everything that is offered, but not abusing anything.

 

X- But Professor, you will agree with me... just now, I read an excerpt from Lao Tse, stating that those who act like this feel alone and persecuted. Do you agree?

 

R- Blessed solitude, Xênia! We have to enter a great solitude to be very well accompanied.

 

X- Professor Rohden, is this freedom that you propose not the one that is out there?

 

R- Use without abusing; this is freedom.

 

X- Look, Professor, I would dare to say that I am free because I am capable...

 

A- To a certain extent, we are all apprentices in the great art of liberation, apprentices only, but not graduated. We are beginners in the art of freeing ourselves without running away from anything. Free ourselves from everything without running away from anything.

 

X- I never found it valid to run away, Professor Rohden.

 

A- Fleeing is a condition of weakness and fear, and those who are afraid are still enslaved by fear.

 

X- Professor Rohden, I'm reading a book that you know and that I discussed in the last program: the Autobiography of a Yogi, by Yogananda. But many things, as a Westerner, I'm scared. And I remember his words: not entirely spirit, not entirely matter. It would be challenging for us Westerners to practice Hindu philosophy fully!

 

A- The Hindu is much more inclined towards spiritualism than materialism. We Westerners almost always prefer materialism to spiritualism. There are two extremes. We cannot be spiritualists, nor should we be materialists. We must be balanced between matter and spirit in the middle because we are a composite of two antitheses that must be synthesized. There is an antithesis of matter, and there is an antithesis of spirit, but synthesis is possible.

 

We must harmoniously synthesize matter and spirit in perfect balance. This is what we call the cosmic man, the integral man, or the universal man. The Universe represents the Infinite Creator and the sum of all finite creatures. The harmonic balance between spirit and matter. This is what is called Integral Philosophy. Both the Eastern and the Western have not achieved this philosophy. Eventually, some isolated individuals, yes, but no people have achieved it. There are no spiritualistic people, and there are no materialistic people. Some individuals make the harmony between spirituality and materiality. This I call using everything without abusing anything. This is freedom.

 

X- Is the dissemination of Hindu philosophy here in the West valid? Excluding excesses, is exploitation valid for a Western man?

 

A- Not entirely, not as a whole. Now, we Westerners, who are more in favour of materialism, must take advantage of everything that is spiritual and acceptable in Eastern philosophy, but not exchange the West for the East. It's another extreme!

 

Integral humanity is not Eastern, not Western, not materialistic or spiritual. It is balanced, harmonized between two antitheses in a wonderfully balanced synthesis. This is our ideal. This we call Cosmic Philosophy, which reveals itself in everyday life. It is not the philosophy of the cave, the streets, the temples or the convents, but a balanced synthesis between two extremes that must be harmonized.

 

X- Have you been to the United States, and were you a student of a disciple of Yogananda, Swami Premananda?

 

A- Yes, I did stay in the United States for six years. Premananda was a disciple and friend of Yogananda.

 

X- And what do you think of their work?

 

R- Their work is an attempt at synthesis between two antitheses. Both Yogananda and Premananda do their best to harmonize the two extremes of the West and the East. How far they will go, no one can say. They do it for some individual students; they don't do it for society, of course, because we can't convert others. We can convert ourselves.

 

With that, they are doing excellent work because they are not one-sidedly spiritual. Nor are they one-sidedly materialistic like we are. They want to be bilaterally eastern and western and balanced simultaneously. It's their philosophy. The intention and the path are right.

 

Now, to what extent can this be achieved in the West, especially with the North American people who are materialistic, more than us, more than Europe... Because Americans are very technical and not very cultural. They always prefer technique to culture, material things to the spiritual world. It's challenging to do some work in this field. However, few manage to achieve the synthesis, balance, harmony between the material and the spiritual, which is precisely the integral man, who lives amid the material world without being materialistic.

 

X- Professor, how do you see Brazil?

 

R- Brazil abandoned European culture in the last 50 years because of the two world wars. The country left the influence of that culture and allowed itself to be massively influenced by the North American one. And this is the great evil of Brazilian civilization.

 

We were influenced by European culture, especially French, which is much more advanced than American. But, due to the two world wars that devastated Europe, Brazil turned more towards the United States, which lost nothing with the war; and became mechanized rather than humanized. We are becoming increasingly mechanized and dehumanized at the same time. And it's US influence.

 

I was invited to give, permanently, two professorships at the University of Washington: Philosophy and Comparative Religions, and I refused this privilege because I didn't conform to their mechanized tendency, leaving culture aside.

 

X- But, isn't it a pity?

 

R- It's indeed because it's money that rules. The technique depends on the money. In terms of technology, the United States is much more advanced than Europe and more dehumanized. And we are following the example of the United States. Instead of having our culture of pure Brazilianness, we are letting ourselves be carried away by the materialist mechanization of the United States. I know this, I was with them at Princeton University as a fellow, a war correspondent, and a professor at the University of Washington for six years.